Webinar

How MSU’s TV Center Went From In-House Captioning to 5-Figure Savings



Webinar Transcript

Danny Lambert

Awesome. Well, before I go into my introductions of our featured guest David here, I'm going to give a little bit of background on Rev and what we do for those of you who may not be existing users and aren't familiar with Rev, and then we'll hop right into the content of today's conversation around what MSU's TV Center is doing and all the great things that David and his team have been able to accomplish. I'll go ahead and share my screen real quick. Awesome.

As I mentioned, today we'll be talking with David Garraway. He is the director of MSU's Television Center, and how they used our closed captioning and also subtitles to help their TV Center do a five-figure savings over the years that they've been leveraging us. If you are unfamiliar with Rev and what it is that we do, we are an on-demand voice to text or speech to text provider. This includes transcription, closed captioning, subtitles, as well as translation services. We have over 100,000 customers. This is everything from, your local YouTube influencer to higher education organizations like a MSU. As a business, we process more audio and video than any other provider, and we also provide access to all of our users to a network of over 50,000 freelancers across the services that I previously mentioned. We've, in terms of like overall scope of the business, transcribed more than a hundred million minutes of audio and video files for companies like Google, Facebook, Buzzfeed and the like since our inception.

As far as the services that we offer, we do polished and rough transcription. The difference between these two things is human versus auto. One is roughly a 12 hour turnaround time. If you need a higher accuracy guarantee, we offer 99% accuracy, and this works well for difficult audio files, multiple speakers and accents, and the rough draft version of that is the automated version where you'll get next to near real time turnaround, a little bit less accurate, but it's great if you don't need like 100% accuracy and you need quick turn on files. What we'll predominantly be focusing today is captions and subtitles, so this is where MSU is seeing a lot of value using us for ADA compliance.

Also, great for broadcast and FCC compliance for those who may be hard of hearing, and also to make your content more interactive if people like to listen without the volume, things of that nature, as well as foreign subtitling, so you can take your English video content and turn it into eight-plus different languages to expand your audiences and make it more accessible to other people who speak different languages. Our last, but not least, service is translation where you can take any document that you have and translate it into over 35 different languages.

As far as who we serve, we currently serve 65% of the Fortune 500, 25% of the Global 2000, and everyone in between. As long as you are producing some form of video or audio content, we're able to help you make that content more accessible but also have it be multipurpose use for different languages and also to reach a bigger audience. Before we go into exactly David and his background and his story, I'd like to mention, and I forgot at the beginning, that please feel free to ask questions in the chat, use the questions tab. We'll be fielding all of those questions and then doing a Q&A with David at the end. So, without further ado, I would love to introduce David, the director of Mississippi State University Television Center.

As a director of the Television Center, he oversees the data operations of the university's full service television production facility and staff. He also serves as a technical and creative resource for the university community and the TV Center in conjunction with the Office of Public Affairs to provide high quality, meaningful programming designed to educate and inform. David is in charge of providing leadership using creative comms that highlight the accomplishments, contributions, and significance of Mississippi State University to a global audience. Thank you so much for joining us today, David. It's really a pleasure to have you on.

David Garraway

I'm happy to be here, appreciate you inviting me.

Danny Lambert

Just for the audience, I wanted to share something that I found pretty intriguing and something that doesn't typically happen when we do promotion of a webinar is, as we were sending out all of this and people were registering, I got a ton of email confirmations saying, "Hey, I love David, he's doing such great things at MSU." I thought it'd just make you feel good to know that a lot of your peers out there are recognizing the great work that you guys are doing.

David Garraway

Well, I appreciate that. We've had the staff working overtime to create those email aliases and send you those emails.

Danny Lambert

Oh, I would have had no idea until right now, but you outed yourself on TV. So, without further ado, would you mind giving us a little bit of background on what the MSU TV Center does and your and your team's role in that whole process?

David Garraway

Sure. At Mississippi State, the Television Center really handles any broadcast needs for the university, other than athletics. Athletics does its own thing, of course, with the SEC network through ESPN. We have a separate team on campus that handles that. For us, a typical week could be anything from a half hour agricultural affairs program that runs state wide on public broadcasting as we shot this morning, all the way to social media or new media pieces that go on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all the way to live event coverage, a commencement at our basketball coliseum two miles away. We handle that and do the live streaming for it. Then, all of the channels that we run on our cable channel, MSTV, that's a 24 seven high definition channel that runs in 10 different municipalities in the state of Mississippi.

Danny Lambert

Wow, that's a lot, and that seems like a lot to kind of organize. I'm wondering within the context of producing all this video, because I assume that was happening before you're introduced to Rev, what kind of problems that you were trying to solve, or where is it where your paths kind of crossed with ours?

David Garraway

Well, ours is really, there were a couple of reasons that captioning and subtitles are important to us as a state owned public university. One of course is the ADA. We have ADA of 1990 that says we need to make reasonable accommodations for those with defined disabilities, supportive disabilities. Another is a university policy on our campus that really lays out the need for us as a university to make, again, reasonable accommodations for people who have specific disabilities, one of which of course is the hearing impaired. So, with those two pretty much requirements that we try to find a way to meet, I'll be frank, for a long time I think we were a lot like other universities where we just sort of stuck our heads in the sand and said, "Well, if nobody asks us about it, we really don't have to provide that accommodation." But, fortunately, technology has changed and the business has changed and what we are producing has changed to the point where captioning and subtitles really became something that was not just something we should do, but something that we could do given the budget limitations of our clients here on campus.

Danny Lambert

How were those issues affecting you before you found a solution in place? Obviously, I think it's a general question that a lot of people struggle with is like, how do we become fully accessible? How do we know if we're there? All of these are pretty open ended questions that are hard to answer and it feels like your team has a pretty good grasp on it. How have things changed, and where have you come from where you were before?

David Garraway

Well, to answer that, I want to start with where we were before, where we are now, and the answer to that was we didn't know if we were accommodating anybody. We were very clunky. We could caption, but it required a really more traditional broadcast approach. We have a caption encoder. Somebody would have to either live caption, which we still do for some live work here, but we'd have to dial in on a phone line to somebody in Washington state and they'd use the steno pad and they would send that data back to us on a modem when it worked, and we would bring that in and caption it and marry it to the video. And so, even if you were doing something that was done, you were looking at another generation of loss in terms of your final product because you had to do the marriage.

Then, of course, we have a teleprompter that's tied into our closed caption encoder here, so for some jobs, we would sit there and us, you know, hen pecking at a keyboard one at a time transcribing a program, which took a long time and it was really sucking up our man-hours to create these caption files, essentially, that we'd then roll in in real-time. Of course, with a real-time project, if it's a half-hour show, it was a half-hour to roll it in on top of the two to three hours it took for us to transcribe it and then check it and make sure we got most of the words right.

Those were challenges for us, and as a result, we tried to ignore it, I guess, as best we could. Then, of course, finding Rev, we are much more confident now in our ability to serve these affected markets. People who need captioning or just want the captioning, we feel like that's certainly something that we're much more comfortable doing now. I know personally for me, I have two small children, so at night when I watch TV I have the volume on like one and I turn the captions on and I tell myself, "Oh it's great because it's going to teach them literacy," whatever. But-

Danny Lambert

Get value out of watching TV.

David Garraway

Right, right, but I'm one of those who watches with the captions on, so I've always been sort of cognizant of that. That was a really long rambling answer to your question, and it may not have answered it at all.

Danny Lambert

No, that was a perfect answer, and I'm the same way is, I certainly like TV with volume, but I'm so distracted, I'll throw on the captions and I'll focus visually and listening, and it really helps me just, like, connect to the content and honestly, like pay more attention and not get very distracted. But, that was a very great answer. I'm interested to know kind of from everyone who finds Rev, but particularly you guys, when was it that you first heard about us and how'd that come about?

David Garraway

I'm going to rack the corners of my brain here. It must have been at least three years ago. We heard about Rev through a colleague of mine at Mississippi Public Broadcasting, which is the consolidated public broadcaster for the state of Mississippi. We were at the point where we had to make some sort of decision on captioning. I reached out to them, we were doing some other things with them, and I reached out and I said, "Who are you using?" They said, "Well, this company, Rev.com, you should try it out. You know, you can just sort of test it and see how you like it," and so that's where I found you, it was very much word of mouth. They were happy with the service, and they have a captioner on staff, but I think for a lot of smaller things they were sending it to you rather than trying to do it in house, and that was appealing to us as well.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, absolutely. After you got that recommendation, was there a process that you went through? What was your solution for vetting other providers in our space?

David Garraway

I don't have a lot of time in my role here. We have to pretty much make decisions based on, let's try this thing, does it work, is it affordable, is it something we could sustain in the long haul? Does it price out relative equal or better than the other options that are out there from a cursory glance, and does it do what we need it to do in the way that we do it? Rev ticked all of those checkboxes. I searched around for some, so I guess, some of your competitors to look at their rates. You guys were very attractive on rate, so then I tried you out. It was good in terms of the product, and then the support was excellent, and I have a story about that we can talk about later. But, everything was good and so I've always sort of had the mentality, you dance with the one that brung you, and you guys have danced real well with us and so there's never really been a need for us to look at those other options because your price points did match what we need and the service levels did match what we need.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, absolutely, and something that I think about then is, like, this is a big decision for a lot of people, probably for you at the time. When you're going about introducing us to your workflow, did you have any reservations, and if so, what were those?

David Garraway

Sure. Well, and I want to dispute one part of that. The beauty of Rev because there's no service contract because it's a pay as you go and because the pricing was so affordable, for us to try it out, it wasn't a big deal, and that's what I really appreciated. You didn't make a sign a 12-month service contract only for us to hate the product, and then try to find a way out of it. It truly was, "Hey, let's give it a shot and see how it goes," and it worked really, really well. One of the things I really like about Rev is the way that our billing structure is set up.

I'm the administrator of an account for Mississippi State's Television Center, but with me we have five or six other producers who all have their own logins tied back to that account, and so what it means is that every producer here can log in and send their work out for captioning, and it goes back to them, but as the administrator I handle the payment which is billed once a month to us, which is very nice. It's not, you know, a million different pro card charges that my business manager would hate me for. One shot a month, it's line itemed so I can see which clients were using those services, it helps us in assessing those costs back to the specific client, right down to telling me the name of the file and the version of the captions that went out the door, which helps, again, me to understand which specific projects are requiring those resources, and it helps me to figure out, okay, I can even infer from that from the type of caption file where those projects are ending up just because the nature of what they're requesting.

Danny Lambert

That's awesome to hear, because a lot of those things that you talked about that your team is leveraging, even the team's functionality, the invoicing functionality, all of that stuff has been probably introduced in the time since you guys have been using us, so it's great to see a lot of the feature adoption that you guys have had and that you're really enjoying some of the features that our product team has been able to put out, so that's really cool for us to hear that. Something else that comes up often with a line item like ours is, how do we measure the benefits that we're deriving from using a service like Rev? Can you kind of run me through how you guys look at the cost analysis and the return on investment of using Rev as a service.

David Garraway

Yeah, sure. We've got to do captioning and subtitles. We can't not do it at this point. First of all, if we turned it off right now, people would holler at us. But second, just philosophically as a land grant institution, we have a requirement to bring our information to as many people who can receive it as we can possibly get to it. We would have to provide captioning somehow, whether or not we use Rev. The only other options, we can look at a live captioner. Live captioners, I don't know if anybody on here has priced that out, but the best price we've gotten in years was $90 an hour for a captioner. That's really expensive for us to be able to pull off, and it requires a bunch of equipment that would require us to have personnel in the control room ready to take that and set up the internet feeds and set up the program audio lines, and there's a staff time associated with it.

You know, to go along with that, if we decided, well we're doing so much work that we just need to hire a captioner on staff, that becomes incredibly expensive. I mean, you're talking salary plus benefits plus all of the fringe plus finding a space for them in our building. We have, like any university, we could always use more space, and I'm sort of out of offices at this point. I know the title of this webinar was that five figure savings, and that's really where we see that five figure savings, is not having to hire a staff member to handle this for us and to not have to tie up two to three engineers/producers in the mechanics of hiring it out at 90 bucks an hour to an outside agency. This allows captions to occur on the producer level in a way that does not require them to spend an inordinate amount of time pulling files in or transcoding files out or adjusting lots of time code. It happens very, very quickly, and that's where we see that savings.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, that's incredible. Free up some of the time for you to go do more of the things that you like to do and less of the things that you don't. Right?

David Garraway

Right.

Danny Lambert

Something that we may not have hit on that I remember came up in some of our previous discussions is, why and how you journeyed into including subtitling and what that has been able to allow you guys to do. When do you use subtitling? What role does that play in your overall workflow?

David Garraway

Sure, so we use subtitles on a client required basis. We do have some outreach pieces that, we have some research agencies, research organizations at Mississippi State that produce outreach materials to people who aren't at MSU, people who live and work and play in the state of Mississippi. They are trying to reach a larger population base. Spanish, certainly by far is the biggest one, and so we will have projects that they'll ask us, "Hey, can you go ahead and run Spanish subtitles as well so we can take this project into markets that would not be served by an English speaking caption or English speaking voiceover and we can still get that messaging across." That's where we see predominantly the use of subtitling, is through those outreach pieces that really are trying to hit all Mississippians where they are.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, and has that transition from just using captions to experimenting with subtitles, has that been difficult for you? What's your process been like when trying to work with them?

David Garraway

Pretty straightforward. I mean, ultimately on the Rev side, you send a file, you tell them what you need and it comes back. I mean, it doesn't come back as quickly, let's be fair about it. But, it comes back generally quickly. Not in 30 minutes sometimes. I mean, sometimes I've got rough stuff back in 15 to 30 minutes, which is crazy. But, the Spanish stuff will take a little longer, a day or two, and that's fine. For us, it's dropping it into, we use Adobe, we do Adobe Creative Cloud for our workflows here. Adobe Premiere Pro is our primary editing platform, and everything from Rev has played quite nicely with Adobe, whether it's the subtitles or the captions, it just works.

Danny Lambert

That's awesome to hear, and I do want to make sure we have time, let's see where we are right now, to get into some of those questions that we have here. I just want, last couple of questions for you is if someone you knew were considering trying to find a caption provider, kind of suffering from some of the problems that you guys had internally, what would you say to them? What would you recommend to them from your experience?

David Garraway

Try out Rev. You know, the beauty of the way they're set up is you don't have an upfront cost to try it out. Matter of fact, I think a few times a year, and you could speak to this probably, I think they've allowed new people to try out the service at low or very limited pricing, really to set the hook, I suppose. I just want to take a moment to be clear that, of course, as a public university, Mississippi State does not endorse a specific vendor. I can only speak to my experiences with Rev, which have been wholly positive and we've had no reason to ever even look at the alternatives, just because of how easy it is to work with you and the product that we receive.

So, give it a shot. If you've never tried it out, send them something that you need done or send them something that ... You know what you should do? Send them something that has a lot of names in your state. Right? So, I'm in Mississippi. People can get Mississippi because it's on a map. But, I know there's a couple of people on this call that are from Mississippi, and every state has interesting names, and it's always sort of interesting to see how well Rev does in getting those things right. Sometimes we'll leave it in there with no pronunciation guide or no vocabulary guide attached just to see what happens. It really is pretty incredible how good they are at figuring out some things that we take for granted geographically.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, I love that you don't just lob that one up. You pose a challenge to everyone on here to really test freelancer base, and that's awesome. You know, we eat our own dog food, we use it for our own content, and that always something that surprises me is how accurate, how much research this freelance community actually puts into getting it right, so I'm glad that you guys feel the same way. The last thing I wanted to hear from you, because I think this is such an interesting story that you have that's pretty unique to your business, to your university. You told me about the interaction that you've had with our engineering team in the past, how you kind of cracked the whip on those guys and told them we need some stuff from you, and you were able to get that back. Do you mind sharing a little bit of that story for our audience today?

David Garraway

I'd be happy to. So, we run a 24 hour, seven day a week cable channel here, and as part of our commitment to accessibility, we wanted to start integrating closed captions into our program stream so that our subscribers can get that information. The system that we use for our play out was a relatively new system and they were building, from the ground up, the captioning module, basically to take the information that we would provide and to insert that information into that video stream for the end user. In that process, we found that one of the specific formats that Rev puts out, what's called an MCC file, was almost compliant with both analog and digital closed caption specifications, but it was slightly off.

So, you know, typically I have low expectations for customer service, especially with a company that is primarily driven through a user interface on a computer, and I'm not calling you 10 times a month needing things. I'm uploading things, I'm getting things back, and you send me an invoice. So, I generally have low expectations. My first thought is, "Oh crap, how are we going to fix this?" I send a message to tech support, and the next thing that I know, we get a phone call from the guy who built the Rev platform. Right? He said, "Tell me specifically what the problem is." I said, "Okay, let me put you in touch with our cable channel, play out vendor." They spoke directly to each other. It wasn't a, "Oh, I can't talk to them. Oh, you'll need to run it through a CSR person." They directly spoke to each other and Rev rebuilt that side of the MCC file to hit that last level of compliance to what's called a 708, CEA 708 standard, and put us on the air.

Again, for a large broadcast manufacturer, for your Cannons or your Sonys or your Panasonics or your Hitachi's or Ross Video, we expect that level of service. But, when you're talking about a dollar a minute for a pay as you go service, it's computer interface, you don't expect that level. It was a nice surprise, and it really reaffirmed that commitment that Rev wants to work with us as an institution, and not just take the money that we give to them every month for the service.

Danny Lambert

Yeah, that's an incredible story, and I think overall what we strive to achieve here is, like, if something is universally applicable and helpful and people will find value out of it, I like to think that our support team and engineering team is pretty receptive to that, and I absolutely love that story. I think that's such a culture builder here on what we want to accomplish and really glad that you guys had that experience with us. So, before we do go on to Q&A, I do want to give everyone on here an opportunity to try Rev out for free if you're not already a user. Let me share my screen for you real quick one more time.

If you visit this URL, enterprise.rev.com/coupon, you just enter your email address and you'll get a coupon that's up to $10 off your first order for Rev. Like David said, go ahead, give us your most challenging Mississippi names you've got, and I think our captioners will come back and surprise you with something impressive. If you're an existing user and you're interested in talking more with someone on our team about some of the things we discussed today, please don't hesitate to reach out to me via email. My email is there at the bottom, danny@rev.com, and David was nice enough as well to include his contact information should you have any follow up questions for him and his process around how the Mississippi State University TV Center is doing all these amazing things that they are. We're certainly open to feedback, open to questions. Please don't hesitate to reach out to us there.

Another item that's helpful to note is we will be sharing the recording of this afterwards, so if you missed anything, you got on late, you know anybody else in your network who think you would benefit from watching this, we'll follow up afterwards with the presentation as well as the recording of this. So, without further ado, let's hop into some of the questions. Since it's pay as you go and no contract, how did you handle the Mississippi purchasing laws and the purchase orders?

David Garraway

That's a pretty specific question, Michael, so I will answer that specifically for us, and other universities may have the same approach. We use our procurement card, which for those who aren't familiar with the procurement card, it's a credit card. Rev allows credit card payments, and our Visa procurement card goes through every month and it's worked really, really well for us.

Danny Lambert

Awesome. Thank you for answering that, David. Let's hop into the next one, also from Michael here. Do you burn in captions and subtitles in Adobe or upload a file?

David Garraway

Without the context of that question, I'm not sure I'm going to answer it correctly for you. We do both. For some projects, we will drop the file that Rev provides to us. Again, typically the MCC file is what we like for Adobe. It provides both what's called 608 and 708 captions onto video tracks on our timeline. Then from there, we can burn, we can encode a file. A lot of our end users that are broadcast need MXF, and MXF does support captioning. So, we'll burn that into the program information and it's there as a non-visible track that you would enable or disengage through whatever your end piece might be. For other things, you know, like your Facebook or your Vimeo or YouTube, we'll take the file directly from Rev and just upload that as a sidecar file to accompany whatever went out on those sites.

I want to say two things very quickly about that, because I just thought about it. YouTube has a very specific naming requirement for the SRT files that you upload as, not YouTube, Facebook, rather. Facebook has very specific naming requirements for that file. You have to specify the language and then the subset of that language. For where we are, it's English_US, or whatever it is. You can rename an SRT file, right, just in your computer. But, I noticed about three months after Facebook debuted that requirement, Rev then debuted what was called a Facebook ready SRT, which, when you select that one, it just goes ahead and renames it for you, and it's that kind of small attention to detail. I actually laughed when I saw it, because I said, "Wow, I now have a dropdown menu that saves me from adding two underscores and four characters." But, that's, again, the level of innovation that they're providing on a regular basis, and that's really nice to have.

The other thing I wanted to mention as you go through Rev's user interface, when we drop files into Adobe, it gives us a chance to look at them, we'll scrub through, make sure everything looks good. But, I've started using the Rev editor that's available in your user interface. It allows you to go through there and check all of the accuracy, update spellings. If you've got a trademark or a brand that needs special capitalization that, of course, they wouldn't know anything about, allows you to go in and fix it and then re-download those files. It's very, very easy to make the changes to the 1% of things that they may not have gotten correct the first time out.

Danny Lambert

Wow, David, I am glad you're here to answer that question, because all of that went over my head.

David Garraway

That's what I do every day.

Danny Lambert

You certainly do. Question from Joseph Elswick. Do you use the Rev API for live captioning, and how does this integrate into your live workflow?

David Garraway

We've not done it yet. Most everything we're doing with Rev, it's fieldwork that's been highly edited. The show that we do here on Wednesday mornings, we actually caption that as we go. They type everything into a script, and so they're reading off the prompter and it does all the captioning for us. We have very limited need at the moment for live to air captioning. Which is nice, because that introduces a bunch of headaches. So, I can't speak to the API for live captioning, but we'll probably start looking at that as another tool to have here to service our clients.

Danny Lambert

Joseph, if you do have any questions about the live captioning solution specifically, feel free to follow up afterwards and we can provide you with more information on that. It appears that our last question in the question section is, what is the single biggest impact you have seen by using Rev?

David Garraway

I think there are two ways to answer that. One is an economic, and the other is more philosophical. The economic argument's pretty simple. We're meeting our federal, state, local, university requirements and we're doing it in a cost efficient manner. At the end of the day, every decision I make here, I'm responsible to the 3 million taxpayers of the state of Mississippi, and so I have an obligation and the desire to do things in a way that upholds quality and maintains the money for the university to do what we need to do in our trifold mission of teaching, research, and service. Economically, we save money.

Philosophically, I think there's a comfort in the fact that we are providing this now, and we're not doing this, you know, there's this method where you put something out to YouTube and you use their auto caption feature, and a couple of days later you can download the file and then use that. I don't know if you've ever looked up YouTube auto caption fails on YouTube. They're fantastic and probably inappropriate for work, I'm just going to warn you. That's not a solution for us. A lot of what we do is, we have to look like the state's leading university, because we are the state's leading university. As a result, the output we have to put out has to be right, and that's the biggest difference for us using Rev. The confidence in knowing that what we're putting out is correct from a content standpoint, from a technical standpoint, and because it's the right thing to do. That's been it for us.

Danny Lambert

That's probably my favorite byte of all your bytes is, it's just the right thing to do. I'm going to go ahead. Those are all the questions we had in the feed. There's a couple I'd like to answer from chat really quickly. William had asked what languages we support. Carla linked to the different languages available in there. Albert had asked do we work with Mediasite. The answer to that is not at the moment, but we've had a bunch of requests for Mediasite integration, it is in product's hand to figure out where that falls in our roadmap. If you are interested in that specifically, please follow up afterwards. It's always helpful to know who is interested in this, if they already have content they're looking to run through an integration like that, it is certainly on our radar and any support for that feature that you may have helps it get prioritized.

Then, I think a very important one here from Michael was in the deck that I presented, it showed a rate of $1 per minute for transcription and captioning. It was just announced that that rate will be going up to $1.25 on March 2nd, so currently the rate is still $1 minute and that will be in place through the 2nd of March, but at that point it will be going up to $1.25. The reason why we're doing that, just out of full transparency is we want to continue to innovate in the ways that David has mentioned here, delivering great product experiences for people, building apps and features, and that's going to allow us to do that.

It's still kind of on par with the lower end of the spectrum from pricing in our market, and the value is certainly there as well as providing us the ability to pay our Revvers a little bit more. Those 50,000 transcriptionists or freelancers that I mentioned work very hard for all of these files, and we want to be able to make their compensation match the level of difficulty in the files that are being provided to them, and that allows us to do that. I don't know, David, if you wanted to chime in on that at all. I know that affects everyone.

David Garraway

Yeah, I got that email like 15 minutes before we started this webinar, and so I browsed it very quickly. It doesn't change the way that we will use Rev. At $1.25 a minute, the value of the services received still exceeds the price at what we're paying for them, or our perceived cost. That's actually the equation that we use here at the TV Center, in terms of making sure that we're doing the right thing for the departments that we work for, is as long as they feel like they're getting a better deal than what they're paying for it, then we know we're on the right side of that equation. Right now Rev, you're right there. We still feel like the value of what we get from you exceeds. Having said that, don't raise it more than $1.25 March 2nd. Okay? We'll do it this time, and then we'll see where we go from there.

Danny Lambert

Yeah. Well, we know that that is the rate for March 2nd. Nothing is going to be changing there. I know we're over time here, David. I can't thank you enough. Your stories have been really awesome for not only me to hear, but I feel like everyone in this chat has gotten a lot of value out of it, so thank you again for your time today and I really appreciate you hopping on and telling your story for all of us.

David Garraway

Happy to do it. Thanks for all you do at Rev to keep us on the right side of both the law and what is right.

Danny Lambert

Awesome. Well, thanks again, David. You have a great day, as well as everyone in the audience. I will see you guys soon.

David Garraway

All right, thanks. Bye, bye.